I’ll try and keep this one a bit shorter (!) than my last life story essay…ah shit it’s already on 3000 words. Look I put effort into my posts
I’m quite often seeing this trend on PPD:
Young TRPer: WE WERE LIED TO! Everyone said Just Be Yourself! Looks Don’t Matter! Confidence is Everything! Good Guy gets the Girl! Don’t Change!
Blue Pill: LOL who the fuck told you this?
YT: EVERYONE! Our parents, our family, the media, our church, our teachers, hell even our friends from what they’d heard on the Internet and seen in movies…
BP: Why the fuck would you believe them? Why are you so literal minded? Are you an idiot? Are you a ‘sperg? You’re a moron I’m done #terpherpderp
I haven’t decided how I feel about these, but I can admit that it must be frustrating for both parties.
I’m going to admit that I never bought into the whole Looks Don't Count thing. I don’t get that part of TRP’s complaints; it should be quite obvious from niceguys
among just about everywhere else that girls do not generally go for fat guys. Especially now that women are talking so, so much about who’s hot or who’s not.
My family did try and encourage me that ‘looks don’t matter’ or rather ‘good women
don’t care so much about looks.’ This is slightly different, but actually feeds into the Myth of the Quality Woman, something which Rollo debunked here and I’ll expand upon below: http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/14/afc-social-conventions/
I think the term ‘Quality’ woman is a misnomer. Guys tend to apply this term at their leisure not so much to define what they’d like in a woman (which is actually an idealization), but rather to exclude women with whom they’d really had no chance with in the first place, or mistakenly applied too much effort and too much focus only to be rebuffed.** This isn’t to say that there aren’t women who will behave maliciously or indiscriminately, nor am I implying that they ought to be excused out of hand for such. What I am saying is that it’s a very AFC predilection to hold women up to preconceived idealizations and conveniently discount them as being less than “Quality” when you’re unable to predict, much less control their behaviors.
The dangers inherent in this convention is that the AFC (or the even the ‘enlightened man’ subscribing to the convention) then limits himself to only what he perceives as a Quality woman, based on a sour-grapes conditioning. Ergo, they’ll end up with a “Quality” woman by default because she’s the only candidate who would accept him for her intimacy. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy by process of elimination.** Taken to its logical conclusion, they shoot the arrow, paint the target around it and call it a bullseye, and after which they feel good for having held to a (misguided) conviction.
So why is this a social convention then? Because it is socially unassailable. Since this convention is rooted to a binary premise, no one would likely challenge it. It would be foolish for me to say “Yes Mr. Chump I think you ought to avoid what you think of as Quality women.” Not only this, but we all get a certain satisfaction from the affirmation that comes from other men confirming our assessment of what category a woman should fit into. Thus it becomes socially reinforced.
Beware of making your necessity a virtue in making a Quality woman your substitute for a ONEitis idealization.**
My family also basically helped to de-sexualise me. No sex talk in a Christian household, and so I grew up with little interest in it despite per pressure to do so. Hmph. Moving on
I had my wake-up call young. Due to being bullied re: Dyspraxia and poor social skills/integration, and my family being overweight, I too started to love to eat, and comfort eat. And I piled on the weight. A hot girl called me a fat spaz when rejecting me when I was 11, still bitter at her but in some ways she helped me, I've since then not once been obese. I have since then flipped all over the physical SMV spectrum from SMV3-SMV8, having had my most major confidence boosts when I started lifting and really getting into the whole athletics department at about 15. I’ve got complacent lately and, after staying quite slim from walking to and from campus every day, am starting to get skinny fat right now ugh...but I've never truly been medically, problematically overweight since then. I knew for a FACT that it’d kill my chances with women.
But I definitely did buy into Be Nice as in Be Good Looking and Nice
. As in "you should be a handsome, really sweet guy who's head over heels for her; in fact, **being sweet makes you seem MORE handsome". Like Harvey in Sabrina the Teenage Witch (my sister made me watch a lot of Nickelodeon, I also wanted Cartoon network or Fox Kids!) This is also, as I'll demonstrate, a standard Disney Renaissance trope, and I absolutely adored that shit growing up, my secret love (can't think of better phrase for hat fuck). Once you're over 16 that sort of behaviour has you called pussy-whipped by guys, and friend zoned by women. Behaviour becomes a massive part of attraction once a boy becomes a man, and it's the behaviour popular dating advice for men recommends which is such a turn-off.
That was a slight digression for context, but it leads onto my main point: The feminine imperative, i.e. the collective social consciousness of our society, has used media (not in a conspiracy fashion, bit in a ‘it’s just the done thing’ fashion) such as Hollywood to remove men’s masculine side and mould them into Beta Buxes. The fashion of which is determined by the audience and media subjects in question.
I have a theory that any romance story since the 90s from Disney to rom-coms is fem-centric and used to mould men into Beta Buxes with Oneitis. These fall into 2 types, broadly: • Loser gets the Hot Girl.
Example: Every film for geeks and guys ever, Adam Sandler, aw hell see this list by u/whitepoison
Knocked Up, Super bad, American Pie. Hollywood loves stories about betas getting girls. It sells and gives false hope. Growing up with Disney and nick kid shows I saw they loved to give that beta some attention as well. Its not just in movies as well. All the advice I ever got was be as nice as possible and wait for that good girl.
Extending the definition of ‘Loser’ a little to ‘unconventionally attractive, childish goof’ for u/TheKickboxingGuy
Any Kevin James movie. Any Michael Cera movie. Any movie with a goofy, silly, or unconventionally "hot" character who winds up getting the girl like Jonah Hill, Seth Rogen, Andy Samberg, Danny Trejo, Bill Murray, Robin Williams, Adrien Brody, Mike Myers, Jack Nicholson, Will Ferrell, etc, etc. Most comedic movies have main characters winding up with incredibly hot women by the end of the program. In fact feminism even recognizes this trend and passes it off as valuing men for their personalities and valuing women for their looks. https://www.reddit.com/PurplePillDebate/comments/3klx8g/if_you_saw_this_thread_except_with_the_genders/cuyjqn9
• Average Girl/Plain Jane gets the Hot Guy
. Example: Many ‘chick-flicks’ (especially common in British soaps at the moment) e.g. Bridget Jones.
The difference is that
- The Loser ‘Mans Up’ to become a good responsible self-sacrificing BB, no longer shallow-and then the Quality Woman learns to love him 'for who he is' despite his (actually respectable) looks
- The Hot Guy gets over himself to see what a great catch the average girl is, and thus 'dates down' to the protagonist
In both cases Hypergamy is satisfied by fem-centric frame.
Let’s actually elaborate on this.
1) Loser Gets the Girl
. R-coms and low-brow chick-flicks typically involve a Loser getting the Girl by Just Being Himself and being a genuinely Nice, Great Guy. This is one of former Nice Guy beta’s in TRP’s major compaints; this isn’t how reality works. Girls go for hot, successful, charismatic guys with their shit together (and often wealthy, but never destitute).
But what's interesting is that it's a double-edged sword of fem-centrism! You see, there is an explicit way that this man's true self and nice-ness/ future
greatness is demonstrated-it's Beta Game by becoming a plugged-in Beta Bux
Let’s assume Loser means precisely that; at the start, he's a loser by mainstream social standards. He's going nowhere with his job/career, he’s often a college drop-out, he’s somewhat out of shape (ranging from decisively fat to ‘beer belly’ or ‘the college fifteen’) he's hooked on beer, pizza and videogames/porn to hide from the realities of being an adult, as such his relationships suck. He’s also usually shallow as fuck-wants hot girls, leading female actress is the love of his life but 'out of his league'. He presents himself as this big lovable goof, who’d be awesome if he was your son-but is just too much to handle for a relationship.
The girls hate him for it, he's a man-child to them. By ‘hate’ I don’t mean explicit hatred, that’s not great material for a light-hearted movie, but obviously the guy isn’t successful with women. Even if he gets a date, he can’t hold down a relationship. The female protagonist also often hates that he values her looks so much, or otherwise shows evidence of ‘toxic masculinity’ such as emotional outbursts to sports or hyper-sexuality (see: shallow, obsessed with porn and hot girls out of his league like he’s still in high school) So she rejects him, initially. She also does this to Jocks-there is always a hot, popular, but stupid, sexist jock who comes onto her that this girl, the Quality Woman, rejects. This is really important; yes girls in the film like the Jock or Alpha, because looks are sexy-to Girls. Stupid Shallow Girls. But the Quality Woman, the female actress, does not.
This is the basic feminist model applied in the Disney Renaissance, btw. Like, this is literally the message of Beauty and the Beast: Gaston is a narcissistic douche, and despite hordes of other women flocking to him, that makes him ugly to the intelligent Belle, considered the most beautiful girl in town. Quality Women pick men who are not shallow and humble or entitled. The Beast used to be a Gaston, but then he became humble, lost his ego and bitterness, and sacrificed himself for Belle. I ate that shit up when I was a kid, and shall expand upon that shaming mechanism of the feminine imperative in part 2.
So even in high school dude-bro movies and sit-coms such as The Simpsons; as the film progresses, our lovable goof 'mans up' and show his 'real depth’, going out of his way to show how much he loves her, overcoming his base sexuality and boyish needs in favour of the responsibilities of man. This was covered in Aristotle’s Poetics ugh wish I could remember the term anyway this is the typical ordeal that the man must face, overcoming his harmartia to be a man-child and becoming a good self-sacrificing Beta Bux for society, as a Real Man does. From this boys and young men struggling with women learn that girls value Beta traits, Oneitis, Masculine HonouResponsibility and commitment over anything else. Even hot girls with options.
This leads to absolute hell for average 16 year old guys, who can't understand why girls go for good looking, often moderately narcissistic jocks who are (allegedly) sexist, shallow, sex-obsessed and irresponsible, and often treat them as shit.
The trope may be slightly adjusted for unconventionally attractive and childish but otherwise responsible male protagonists proving their value by heavy beta Game and showing that they may be a child at heart, but they do have a serious, responsible side, and a sense of duty to a higher cause. E.g. Jack Black, Robin Williams, Will Ferrell
2) Average Girl gets the Hot Guy
: The subject of much chick lit and chick flicks, it’s another exercise in Hypergamy and Solipsism. For a rudimentary example of female Hypergamy with little back-story, you may all be familiar with this joke from Inside Out, where the kid’s wife is getting fed up with Dad sucking as a parent, and her Emotions ‘change the channel’ to a fantasy about a Brazilian helicopter pilot (basically Chad) wooing her on a beach-to their delight, of course.
Even higher value men themselves have, in these movies and outside in some cases, been brainwashed by the feminine imperative. I’m taking the basic plot of Bridget Jones as my example for these.
In these films, the man is often already Alpha in the way that the Loser was not. He’s got his shit together; he’s quite rich, or stinking rich, (apparently) handsome, successful, and charismatic-but secretly bumbles, especially around women he’s attracted to. E.g. Hugh Grant, Colin Firth. Basically anything with these chumps in it. The over-riding factor is getting these guys to 'lose their ego'. Feminism has always been obsessed with the notion of the over-blown male ego.
It’s not so much that they are repulsed by her-she’s not ugly per se, she’s a plain Jane-but ‘circumstances’ prevent them being together. She’s ‘not my type’. He’s ‘a busy man’ and has more important things to attend to. He’s highly desirable, both socially and he has other women on the grapevine. It’s often sold as a class/status divide (which also fits into the Hypergamy of the target demographic, mid 20something to middle-aged women). Nobody’s going to outright say she’s not in his league, because that would kill the fantasy, break the illusion. And if someone DOES say it? See below.
But what invariably happens? He falls for her. (Well actually, in Bridget Jones 2 high value guys fall for her, and fight over her in public, falling into a fountain…yeah I’ve seen it) He starts to question whether he’s truly ‘following his dreams’. He can’t stop thinking about her in his workplace, while he’s about to have the company take off, he’s giving the Downing Street address or whatever. (UK Prime Minister’s residence for the unaware)
And at some point, the turning point of the film, the Alpha says/does something particularly arrogant, perhaps sleeps with another woman or makes a taboo by calling her ‘Chunky’ ‘Homely’ etc. (A man instantly becomes a misogynist after calling a woman Fat, after all) Of course this pisses off our protagonist no end; she makes a scathing remark about him, possibly publicly humiliates him, and he’s left kicking himself in the foot with shame. “What was I thinking? I’m such an idiot. Why did I say that?” He then has a reformation of character; stops being a player, or so egotistical or shallow, makes even more ostentatious advances to demonstrate his affection-and she doesn’t actually FALL for him, she merely forgives him. But they kiss and make up and get married so happily ever after for (her) them.
Obviously we have 50 Shades of Grey
Grey as another example of this, Mr Grey being the impossibly Alpha yet troubled man who seeks solace from his hidden complex in the affections of a plain Jane. It is quite obvious that the likes of Christian Grey would be able to date wealthy, upper-class models (um, if he got rid of his abusive streak). But invariably, men like Grey settle (if we base matters off raw SMV). And this is the porno lesson young women learn, and even some older women have internalized thanks to joking-OK-maybe-not mixing it up with actual feminist rhetoric. That Real Men will get over themselves and their big fat ego, committing to/marrying a Real Woman. There is a reason that the ravishment fantasy is so damn popular; a high value man uncontrollable desiring you and wanting to commit to you.
Yo Radical One said to me earlier [sic] “what kind of love is it to settle? Love should be intense and passionate” to which my response was:
Well obviously nobody who wants to make a buck sells it like that, mate.
It's always "I realised how beautiful and amazing you really are, and what a fool I was to take you for granted", isn't it?
with a big snog.
Rarely do we see the post-honeymoon sex or attraction, unless it's a flash-forward to the happily-ever-after-house-kids-and-white-picket-fence.
And that's what's rammed into both men's and women's heads. He got over himself and realised what a catch she really was.
Solipsism and hypergamy fully satisfied for all the women watching.
Lessons for the high value man here: Ego is obnoxious. Shy girls deserve a date. Frumpy girls deserve a date. ‘Downtown girls’ deserve a date.
[Billy Joel playing in my head at the moment and when she knooows what she wants, from her ti-ii-iiime] In any case, Good men date down.
Conclusions for the tl;dr lurkers:
- High value men were brainwashed to becoming Relatable (read: humble) Men who commit to the realistic, Relatable (read: ordinary, read, average/low SMV) women. The decision is sold as overcoming his toxic masculinity; getting over his big fat problematic ego.
- Low value men were brainwashed to 'boosting their SMV' in ways which specifically cater PRIMARILY to women’s post-Wall needs, by 'manning up' and becoming a Beta Bux with oneitis. (Implicit scarcity mentality follows, but is not portrayed in the movies of course) The decision is sold as overcoming his toxic masculinity; getting over his Peter Pan complex, growing up and possibly not being so shallow, by literally chasing and breaking an arm and a leg for an ostensibly Quality Woman.
- In both cases, it's a means to cater to a woman's individual Hypergamy; it breeds entitlement and solipsism in women, while manifesting unconscious shame in men who do not fulfill women’s current needs (Alphas, omegas and MGTOWs alike.) It also sets men up to take a ‘shot gun’ approach as opposed to a ‘fish net’ approach, as again described by Rollo; they are likely to develop Oneitis, and have fewer options than the women they court. This consolidates fem-centric frame, i.e. gives women power over the relationship, which is required to maintain male disposability and not have betas and omegas go MGTOW.
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