Alright so, I took the default database from there https://skribbliohints.github.io/
and with the help of html, I extracted the words to a list separated by commas. It's useful when you want to translate those words into your native language. Word of advice
, when using google translate, do not put all words at once there, it can rapidly worsen the translation.
(And there is a last thing
. Their algorithm of picking only custom words is not working really good, at least for me. Meaning that I often get duplicates, despite having a list this big and without duplicates. I'm still trying to find some solution to this, so if somebody is experiencing this as well, share the knowledge please, I will do the same.) SOLUTION:
Thanks for the reply from PepegaWR
who identified the cause. I also tested it and there seems to be a custom words limit of 5000 characters. The easiest way in my opinion is to shuffle the words before each session to minimize the impact. Also thanks to the flynger
who had the same idea before me :)
Finally, here it is, enjoy the scribbling ^^ :
ABBA, AC/DC, Abraham Lincoln, Adidas, Africa, Aladdin, America, Amsterdam, Android, Angelina Jolie, Angry Birds, Antarctica, Anubis, Apple, Argentina, Asia, Asterix, Atlantis, Audi, Australia, BMW, BMX, Bambi, Band-Aid, Barack Obama, Bart Simpson, Batman, Beethoven, Bible, Big Ben, Bill Gates, Bitcoin, Black Friday, Bomberman, Brazil, Bruce Lee, Bugs Bunny, Canada, Capricorn, Captain America, Cat Woman, Cerberus, Charlie Chaplin, Chewbacca, China, Chinatown, Christmas, Chrome, Chuck Norris, Colosseum, Cookie Monster, Crash Bandicoot, Creeper, Croatia, Cuba, Cupid, DNA, Daffy Duck, Darwin, Darwin Watterson, Deadpool, Dexter, Discord, Donald Duck, Donald Trump, Dora, Doritos, Dracula, Dumbo, Earth, Easter, Easter Bunny, Egypt, Eiffel tower, Einstein, Elmo, Elon Musk, Elsa, Eminem, England, Europe, Excalibur, Facebook, Family Guy, Fanta, Ferrari, Finn, Finn and Jake, Flash, Florida, France, Frankenstein, Fred Flintstone, Gandalf, Gandhi, Garfield, Germany, God, Goofy, Google, Great Wall, Greece, Green Lantern, Grinch, Gru, Gumball, Happy Meal, Harry Potter, Hawaii, Hello Kitty, Hercules, Hollywood, Home Alone, Homer Simpson, Hula Hoop, Hulk, Ikea, India, Intel, Ireland, Iron Giant, Iron Man, Israel, Italy, Jack-o-lantern, Jackie Chan, James Bond, Japan, JayZ, Jenga, Jesus Christ, Jimmy Neutron, John Cena, Johnny Bravo, KFC, Katy Perry, Kermit, Kim Jong-un, King Kong, Kirby, Kung Fu, Lady Gaga, Las Vegas, Lasagna, Lego, Leonardo DiCaprio, Leonardo da Vinci, Lion King, London, London Eye, Luigi, MTV, Madagascar, Mario, Mark Zuckerberg, Mars, McDonalds, Medusa, Mercedes, Mercury, Mexico, Michael Jackson, Mickey Mouse, Microsoft, Milky Way, Minecraft, Miniclip, Minion, Minotaur, Mona Lisa, Monday, Monster, Mont Blanc, Morgan Freeman, Morse code, Morty, Mount Everest, Mount Rushmore, Mozart, Mr. Bean, Mr. Meeseeks, Mr Bean, Mr Meeseeks, Mummy, NASCAR, Nasa, Nemo, Neptune, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nike, Nintendo Switch, North Korea, Northern Lights, Norway, Notch, Nutella, Obelix, Olaf, Oreo, Pac-Man, Paris, Patrick, Paypal, Peppa Pig, Pepsi, Phineas and Ferb, Photoshop, Picasso, Pikachu, Pink Panther, Pinocchio, Playstation, Pluto, Pokemon, Popeye, Popsicle, Porky Pig, Portugal, Poseidon, Pringles, Pumba, Reddit, Rick, Robbie Rotten, Robin Hood, Romania, Rome, Russia, Samsung, Santa, Saturn, Scooby Doo, Scotland, Segway, Sherlock Holmes, Shrek, Singapore, Skittles, Skrillex, Skype, Slinky, Solar System, Sonic, Spain, Spartacus, Spiderman, SpongeBob, Squidward, Star Wars, Statue of Liberty, Steam, Stegosaurus, Steve Jobs, Stone Age, Sudoku, Suez Canal, Superman, Susan Wojcicki, Sydney Opera House, T-rex, Tails, Tarzan, Teletubby, Terminator, Tetris, The Beatles, Thor, Titanic, Tooth Fairy, Tower Bridge, Tower of Pisa, Tweety, Twitter, UFO, USB, Uranus, Usain Bolt, Vatican, Vault boy, Velociraptor, Venus, Vin Diesel, W-LAN, Wall-e, WhatsApp, William Shakespeare, William Wallace, Winnie the Pooh, Wolverine, Wonder Woman, Xbox, Xerox, Yin and Yang, Yoda, Yoshi, Youtube, Zelda, Zeus, Zorro, Zuma, abstract, abyss, accident, accordion, ace, acid, acne, acorn, action, actor, addiction, addition, adorable, adult, advertisement, afro, afterlife, air conditioner, airbag, aircraft, airplane, airport, alarm, albatross, alcohol, alien, allergy, alley, alligator, almond, alpaca, ambulance, anaconda, anchor, angel, anglerfish, angry, animation, anime, ant, anteater, antelope, antenna, anthill, antivirus, anvil, apartment, apocalypse, applause, apple, apple pie, apple seed, apricot, aquarium, arch, archaeologist, archer, architect, aristocrat, arm, armadillo, armor, armpit, arrow, ash, assassin, assault, asteroid, astronaut, asymmetry, athlete, atom, attic, audience, autograph, avocado, axe, baboon, baby, back pain, backbone, backflip, backpack, bacon, bad, badger, bag, bagel, bagpipes, baguette, bait, bakery, baklava, balance, balcony, bald, ball, ballerina, ballet, balloon, bamboo, banana, bandage, bandana, banjo, bank, banker, bar, barbarian, barbecue, barbed wire, barber, barcode, bark, barn, barrel, bartender, base, basement, basket, basketball, bat, bathroom, bathtub, battery, battle, battleship, bayonet, bazooka, beach, beak, bean, bean bag, beanie, beanstalk, bear, bear trap, beatbox, beaver, bed, bed bug, bed sheet, bedtime, bee, beef, beer, beet, beetle, bell, bell pepper, bellow, belly, belly button, below, belt, bench, betray, bicycle, bill, billiards, bingo, binoculars, biology, birch, bird, bird bath, birthday, biscuit, bite, black, black hole, blackberry, blacksmith, blanket, bleach, blender, blimp, blind, blindfold, blizzard, blood, blowfish, blue, blueberry, blush, boar, board, boat, bobsled, bodyguard, boil, bomb, booger, book, bookmark, bookshelf, boomerang, boots, border, bottle, bottle flip, bounce, bouncer, bow, bowl, bowling, box, boy, bracelet, braces, brain, brainwash, branch, brand, bread, breakfast, breath, brick, bricklayer, bride, bridge, broadcast, broccoli, broken heart, bronze, broom, broomstick, brownie, bruise, brunette, brush, bubble, bubble gum, bucket, building, bulge, bull, bulldozer, bullet, bumper, bungee jumping, bunk bed, bunny, burglar, burp, burrito, bus, bus driver, bus stop, butcher, butler, butt cheeks, butter, butterfly, button, cab driver, cabin, cabinet, cactus, cage, cake, calendar, camel, camera, campfire, camping, can, can opener, canary, candle, canister, cannon, canyon, cap, cape, cappuccino, captain, car wash, cardboard, carnival, carnivore, carpenter, carpet, carrot, cartoon, cash, casino, cast, cat, catalog, catapult, caterpillar, catfish, cathedral, cauldron, cauliflower, cave, caveman, caviar, ceiling, ceiling fan, celebrate, celebrity, cell, cell phone, cello, cement, centaur, centipede, chain, chainsaw, chair, chalk, chameleon, champagne, champion, chandelier, charger, cheek, cheeks, cheerleader, cheese, cheeseburger, cheesecake, cheetah, chef, chemical, cherry, cherry blossom, chess, chest, chest hair, chestnut, chestplate, chew, chicken, chihuahua, child, chime, chimney, chimpanzee, chin, chinchilla, chocolate, chopsticks, church, cicada cigarette, cinema, circle, circus, clap, clarinet, classroom, claw, clay, clean, clickbait, cliff, climb, cloak, clock, cloth, clothes hanger, cloud, clover, clown, clownfish, coach, coal, coast, coast guard, coaster, coat, cobra, cockroach, cocktail, coconut, cocoon, coffee, coffee shop, coffin, coin, cola, cold, collapse, collar, color-blind, comb, comedian, comedy, comet, comfortable, comic book, commander, commercial, communism, community, compass, complete, computer, concert, condiment, cone, confused, console, continent, controller, conversation, cookie, cookie jar, copper, copy, coral, coral reef, cord, cork, corkscrew, corn, corn dog, corner, cornfield, corpse, cotton, cotton candy, country, cousin, cow, cowbell, cowboy, coyote, crab, crack, crate, crawl space, crayon, cream, credit, credit card, cricket, cringe, crocodile, croissant, crossbow, crow, crowbar, crucible, cruise, crust, crystal, cube, cuckoo, cucumber, cup, cupboard, cupcake, curry, curtain, cushion, customer, cut, cute, cyborg, cylinder, cymbal, dagger, daisy, dalmatian, dance, dandelion, dandruff, darts, dashboard, daughter, day, dead, deaf, deep, deer, defense, delivery, demon, demonstration, dent, dentist, deodorant, depressed, derp, desert, desk, desperate, dessert, detective, detonate, dew, diagonal, diagram, diamond, diaper, dice, dictionary, die, diet, dig, dinner, dinosaur, diploma, dirty, disaster, disease, dishrag, dispenser, display, diss track, distance, diva, divorce, dizzy, dock, doctor, dog, doghouse, doll, dollar, dollhouse, dolphin, dome, dominoes, donkey, door, doorknob, dots, double, dough, download, dragon, dragonfly, drain, drama, drawer, dream, dress, drink, drip, drive, driver, drool, droplet, drought, drum, drum kit, duck, duct tape, duel, dwarf, dynamite, eagle, ear, earbuds, earthquake, earwax, east, eat, echo, eclipse, eel, egg, eggplant, elbow, elder, election, electric car, electric guitar, electrician, electricity, elephant, elevator, embers, emerald, emoji, employer, emu, end, engine, engineer, equator, eraser, error, eskimo, espresso, evaporate, evening, evolution, exam, excavator, exercise, explosion, eye, eyebrow, eyelash, eye shadow, fabric, fabulous, facade, face, face paint, factory, failure, fairy, fake teeth, fall, family, farm, farmer, fashion designer, fast, fast food, fast forward, father, faucet, feather, fence, fencing, fern, festival, fidget spinner, field, figurine, filmmaker, filter, finger, fingernail, fingertip, fire alarm, fire hydrant, fire truck, fireball, firecracker, firefighter, firefly, firehouse, fireman, fireplace, fireproof, fireside, firework, fish, fish bowl, fisherman, fist fight, fitness trainer, fizz, flag, flagpole, flamethrower, flamingo, flashlight, flask, flea, flight attendant, flock, floodlight, floppy disk, florist, flower, flu, fluid, flush, flute, fly, fly swatter, flying pig, fog, foil, folder, food, forehead, forest, forest fire, fork, fort, fortress, fortune, fossil, fountain, fox, frame, freckles, freezer, fridge, fries, frog, frostbite, frosting, frown, fruit, full, full moon, funeral, funny, fur, furniture, galaxy, gang, gangster, garage, garbage, garden, gardener, garlic, gas, gas mask, gasoline, gasp, gate, gem, gender, generator, genie, gentle, gentleman, geography, germ, geyser, ghost, giant, gift, giraffe, girl, gladiator, glass, glasses, glitter, globe, gloss, glove, glow, glowstick, glue, glue stick, gnome, goal, goat, goatee, goblin, godfather, gold, gold chain, golden apple, golden egg, goldfish, golf, golf cart, good, goose, gorilla, graduation, graffiti, grandmother, grapefruit, grapes, graph, grass, grasshopper, grave, gravedigger, gravel, graveyard, gravity, greed, grenade, grid, grill, grin, groom, grumpy, guillotine, guinea pig, guitar, gumball, gummy, gummy bear, gummy worm, hacker, hair, hair roller, hairbrush, haircut, hairspray, hairy, half, halo, ham, hamburger, hammer, hammock, hamster, hand, handicap, handle, handshake, hanger, happy, harbor, hard, hard hat, harmonica, harp, harpoon, hashtag, hat, hazard, hazelnut, head, headache, headband, headboard, heading, headphones, health, heart, heat, hedgehog, heel, heist, helicopter, hell, helmet, hen, hermit, hero, hexagon, hibernate, hieroglyph, high five, high heels, high score, highway, hilarious, hill, hip hop, hippie, hippo, hitchhiker, hive, hobbit, hockey, holiday, homeless, honey, honeycomb, hoof, hook, hop, hopscotch, horizon, horn, horse, horsewhip, hose, hospital, hot, hot chocolate, hot dog, hot sauce, hotel, hourglass, house, hovercraft, hug, hummingbird, hunger, hunter, hurdle, hurt, husband, hut, hyena, hypnotize, iPad, iPhone, ice, ice cream, ice cream truck, iceberg, icicle, idea, imagination, impact, incognito, industry, infinite, injection, insect, inside, insomnia, internet, intersection, interview, invasion, invention, invisible, iron, island, ivy, jacket, jackhammer, jaguar, jail, jalapeno, janitor, jaw, jazz, jeans, jeep, jello, jelly, jellyfish, jester, jet ski, joker, journalist, journey, judge, juggle, juice, jump rope, jungle, junk food, kangaroo, karaoke, karate, katana, kazoo, kebab, keg, kendama, ketchup, kettle, key, keyboard, kidney, kindergarten, king, kiss, kitchen, kite, kitten, kiwi, knee, kneel, knife, knight, knot, knuckle, koala, kraken, label, laboratory, ladder, lady, ladybug, lake, lamb, lamp, landlord, landscape, lane, language, lantern, lap, laptop, laser, lasso, laundry, lava, lava lamp, lawn mower, lawyer, leader, leaf, leak, leash, leather, leave, leech, legs, lemon, lemonade, lemur, lens, leprechaun, lettuce, levitate, librarian, library, licorice, lid, light bulb, lighter, lighthouse, lightning, lightsaber, lily, lilypad, limbo, lime, limousine, line, link, lion, lips, lipstick, litter box, lizard, llama, loading, loaf, lobster, lock, log, logo, lollipop, loot, loser, lotion, lottery, lounge, love, low, luck, luggage, lumberjack, lung, lynx, lyrics, macaroni, machine, macho, mafia, magazine, magic, magic trick, magic wand, magician, magma, magnet, magnifier, maid, mailbox, mailman, makeup, mall, mammoth, manatee, manhole, manicure, mannequin, mansion, mantis, map, maracas, marathon, marble, margarine, marigold, market, marmalade, marmot, marshmallow, mascot, mask, massage, match, matchbox, mattress, mayonnaise, mayor, maze, meal, meat, meatball, meatloaf, mechanic, meerkat, megaphone, melon, melt, meme, mermaid, message, messy, metal, meteorite, microphone, microscope, microwave, midnight, military, milk, milkman, milkshake, mime, miner, minigolf, minivan, mint, minute, mirror, missile, model, mohawk, mold, mole, money, monk, monkey, monster, moon, moose, mop, morning, mosquito, moss, moth, mothball, mother, motherboard, motorbike, motorcycle, mountain, mouse, mousetrap, mouth, movie, mud, muffin, mug, murderer, muscle, museum, mushroom, musket, mustache, mustard, nachos, nail, nail file, nail polish, napkin, narwhal, nature, navy, neck, needle, neighbor, neighborhood, nerd, nest, network, newspaper, nickel, night, nightclub, nightmare, ninja, noob, noodle, north, nose, nose hair, nose ring, nosebleed, nostrils, notebook, notepad, nothing, notification, novel, nugget, nuke, nun, nurse, nut, nutcracker, nutmeg, nutshell, oar, observatory, ocean, octagon, octopus, office, oil, old, omelet, onion, open, opera, orange, orangutan, orbit, orca, orchestra, orchid, organ, origami, ostrich, otter, outside, oval, overweight, owl, oxygen, oyster, paddle, page, pain, paint, paintball, pajamas, palace, palette, palm, palm tree, pan, pancake, panda, panpipes, panther, pants, papaya, paper, paper bag, parachute, parade, parakeet, parents, park, parking, parrot, party, password, pasta, pastry, path, patient, patio, patriot, pause, pavement, paw, peace, peach, peacock, peanut, pear, peas, peasant, pedal, pelican, pencil, pencil case, pencil sharpener, pendulum, penguin, peninsula, penny, pensioner, pepper, pepperoni, perfume, periscope, person, pet food, pet shop, petal, pharmacist, photo frame, photograph, photographer, piano, pickaxe, pickle, picnic, pie, pig, pigeon, piggy bank, pigsty, pike, pill, pillar, pillow, pillow fight, pilot, pimple, pin, pinball, pine, pine cone, pineapple, pink, pinky, pinwheel, pipe, pirate, pirate ship, pistachio, pistol, pitchfork, pizza, plague, planet, plank, plate, platypus, player, playground, plow, plug, plumber, plunger, pocket, pogo stick, point, poison, poisonous, poke, polar bear, policeman, pollution, polo, pond, pony, ponytail, poodle, poop, poor, popcorn, pope, poppy, popular, porch, porcupine, portal, portrait, positive, postcard, poster, pot, pot of gold, potato, potion, pound, powder, prawn, pray, preach, pregnant, present, president, pretzel, price tag, priest, prince, princess, printer, prism, prison, pro, procrastination, professor, programmer, promotion, protest, provoke, prune, pub, pudding, puddle, puffin, puma, pumpkin, punishment, punk, puppet, purity, purse, puzzle, pyramid, quarter, queen, queue, quicksand, quill, quilt, quokka, raccoon, race, racecar, radar, radiation, radio, radish, raft, rail, rain, rainbow, raincoat, raindrop, rainforest, raisin, rake, ram, ramp, rapper, raspberry, rat, ravioli, razor, razorblade, read, reality, reception, receptionist, record, rectangle, recycling, red, red carpet, reeds, referee, reflection, reindeer, relationship, religion, remote, repeat, reptile, rest, restaurant, retail, revolver, rewind, rhinoceros, rib, ribbon, rice, ring, ringtone, risk, river, roadblock, robber, robin, robot, rock, rocket, rockstar, roll, roof, room, rooster, root, rose, royal, rubber, ruby, rug, ruler, run, rune, sad, saddle, safari, safe, sailboat, salad, sale, saliva, salmon, salt, saltwater, sand, sand castle, sandbox, sandstorm, sandwich, satellite, sauce, sauna, sausage, saxophone, scar, scarecrow, scarf, scary, scent, school, science, scientist, scissors, scoop, score, scream, screen, screw, scribble, scuba, sculpture, scythe, sea, sea lion, seafood, seagull, seahorse, seal, search, seashell, seasick, season, seat belt, seaweed, second, security, seed, seesaw, semicircle, sensei, server, sew, sewing machine, shadow, shake, shallow, shampoo, shape, shark, shaving cream, sheep, shelf, shell, shipwreck, shirt, shock, shoe, shoebox, shoelace, shop, shopping, shopping cart, short, shotgun, shoulder, shout, shovel, shower, shrew, shrub, shy, sick, signature, silence, silo, silver, silverware, sing, sink, sit, six pack, skateboard, skateboarder, skates, skeleton, ski, ski jump, skin, skinny, skribbl.io, skull, skunk, sky, skydiving, skyline, skyscraper, slam, sledge, sledgehammer, sleep, sleeve, slide, slime, slingshot, slippery, slope, sloth, slow, slump, smell, smile, smoke, snail, snake, sneeze, sniper, snow, snowball, snowball fight, snowboard, snowflake, snowman, soap, soccer, social media, socket, socks, soda, soil, soldier, sombrero, son, sound, soup, south, space, space suit, spaceship, spade, spaghetti, spark, sparkles, spatula, speaker, spear, spelunker, sphinx, spider, spin, spinach, spine, spiral, spit, spoiler, sponge, spool, spoon, spore, sports, spray paint, spring, sprinkler, spy, square, squid, squirrel, stab, stadium, stage, stamp, stand, stapler, star, starfish, starfruit, statue, steam, step, stereo, sting, stingray, stomach, stone, stoned, stop sign, stork, storm, stove, straw, strawberry, streamer, street, stress, strong, student, studio, study, stylus, submarine, subway, sugar, suitcase, summer, sun, sunburn, sunflower, sunglasses, sunrise, sunshade, supermarket, superpower, surface, surfboard, surgeon, survivor, sushi, swag, swamp, swan, swarm, sweat, sweater, swimming pool, swimsuit, swing, switch, sword, swordfish, symphony, table, table tennis, tablecloth, tablet, tabletop, taco, tadpole, tail, tailor, take off, talent show, tampon, tangerine, tank, tape, tarantula, target, taser, tattoo, taxi, taxi driver, tea, teacher, teapot, tear, teaspoon, teddy bear, telephone, telescope, television, temperature, tennis, tennis racket, tent, tentacle, text, thermometer, thief, thin, think, thirst, throat, throne, thug, thumb, thunder, thunderstorm, ticket, tickle, tie, tiger, time machine, timpani, tiny, tip, tiramisu, tire, tired, tissue, tissue box, toad, toast, toaster, toe, toenail, toilet, tomato, tomb, tombstone, tongue, toolbox, tooth, toothbrush, toothpaste, toothpick, top hat, torch, tornado, torpedo, tortoise, totem, toucan, touch, tourist, tow truck, towel, tower, toy, tractor, traffic, traffic light, trailer, train, translate, trap, trapdoor, trash can, traveler, treadmill, treasure, tree, treehouse, trend, triangle, trick shot, tricycle, trigger, triplets, tripod, trombone, trophy, tropical, truck, truck driver, trumpet, tuba, tug, tumor, tuna, tunnel, turd, turkey, turnip, turtle, tuxedo, twig, type, udder, ukulele, umbrella, uncle, underground, underweight, undo, unibrow, unicorn, unicycle, uniform, universe, upgrade, vacation, vaccine, vacuum, valley, vampire, vanilla, vanish, vault, vegetable, vegetarian, vein, vent, vertical, veterinarian, victim, victory, video, video game, village, villain, vine, vinegar, viola, violence, violin, virtual reality, virus, vise, vision, vitamin, vlogger, vodka, volcano, volleyball, volume, vomit, voodoo, vortex, vote, vulture, vuvuzela, waffle, waist, waiter, wake up, walk, wall, wallpaper, walnut, walrus, warehouse, warm, wart, wasp, watch, water, water cycle, water gun, waterfall, wave, wax, weak, wealth, weapon, weasel, weather, web, website, wedding, welder, well, werewolf, west, western, whale, wheel, wheelbarrow, whisk, whisper, whistle, white, wife, wig, wiggle, willow, wind, windmill, window, windshield, wine, wine glass, wing, wingnut, winner, winter, wire, wireless, witch, witness, wizard, wolf, wonderland, woodpecker, wool, work, workplace, world, worm, wound, wrapping, wreath, wrench, wrestler, wrestling, wrinkle, wrist, writer, x-ray, xylophone, yacht, yardstick, yawn, yearbook, yellow, yeti, yo-yo, yogurt, yolk, young, youtuber, zebra, zeppelin, zigzag, zipline, zipper, zombie, zoo, zoom,
As you can expect from the title, this how my first experience on the dark web went. I'm writing this as a warning to all of you who have interest going on there. I know this may just encourage more of you on there, but please just know that what I'm telling you has given me nightmares for days now. Just read this and learn from my wisdom. Thinking you can handle what is out there isn't the same as actually handling it. submitted by
I had always been interested in the dark web. However, I never owned a personal computer growing up, and the college I went to had strict internet monitoring/filtering, so I never risked making an incursion. Well I went home due to the coronavirus outbreak, and decided it was time to figure out what all the fuss was about.
So I did some research, and decided to install Tails as a VM and browse from their, hopefully protecting my computer from any malicious attacks. I pull up a tor browser and hop on the hidden-wiki. For the most part, most of the links timed out, most likely they were taken down for one reason or another. Then I found more links to updated "hiden-wikis."
These must've been updated more recently as several more of the links worked. Nothing crazy. Some deepweb porn (honestly the clearnet stuff is better), sites selling drugs, IDs, bitcoin, etc. The occasional conspiracy site. "Red Rooms" that looked like a 10 year old taking an HTML course made, most likely scams.
It was near the bottom of this hidden-wiki page that I found an interesting cite. I forget the name, but the description said "link paste." If you ever find the wiki page, a quick ctrl-f will find it for you. It was a pretty simple website. Basically it was an online forum, actually similar to reddit. However it appeared it was primarily used for posting newfound links and offering various services - hacking, drugs, prostitution. Some darker stuff too, linking/selling child porn and pay to view webcams of blackmailed teens. I stayed away from those.
One of the links caught my eye for some reason. "Get revenge on my girlfriend!" Normally posts like these linked the girlfriends nudes or whatever, but not this one. The OP gave a ton of her info, saying she cheated. Her drivers licence, pictures, email, address. I couldn't read all of it because apparently the girl was chinese.
At first the comments were actually quite wholesome and I laughed, people telling him that she wasn't worth it and he could do way better. "Don't worry about her, king, you can do so much better" and whatnot. Surprisingly wholesome actually. I guess even on the darkweb we're all still bros. But as I scrolled down, one of the comments posted a link, captioned "got revenge."
I, being an idiot, opened it. It redirected me to what looked like a downgraded youtube video. I clicked play. The video started off in what looked like somebody's unfinished basement. The camera panned, around to a hooded woman tied up in a chair, naked. The floor was covered by a tarp. I had a sinking feeling of where this was going. I should've closed the link, deleted the VM, and never looked back. But my curiosity got the better of me. A man walks in from the edge. He's shirtless, revealing a hairy beer gut, but hes wearing what looks like a gimp mask (the footage was kinda grainy so I'm not totally sure). I see he's holding a hacksaw. I should've closed that browser then and their, but I sat, paralyzed by fear of what I knew I was about to see. He took the hood off of the woman, revealing what looked like the woman in the photos above. Her hair was disheveled and her makeup was smeared across her face crying. She looked around frantically, trying to make out her surroundings.
The man started with her arm. Still tied to the chair, he began hacking away at her shoulder as she screamed and squirmed. I could hear the sound of the saw, tearing at her bone. It makes me sick just to think about. The tarp pooled with blood.
I don't really want to describe in any more detail what happened next. Needless to say, the rest of her limbs were removed, and her corpse was strewn across the floor, matted with blood. The camera came in close to her face, as if to verify it was the girl.
No longer paralyzed, I immediately closed the browser, horrified by what I had just seen. However, there was a new window open, like one of those popup boxes. On it was simply a series of numbers. An IP address. And below it, the text, "We know who you are."
I quickly opened a terminal, and typed in 'ipconfig,' displaying my IP address. It was a match.
I stared for a minute in terror. Did they know who I was? Where I am? I sprung into action. I powered off the Virtual Machine, deleted it from VMware. I then immediately deleted the disk image file it came in and emptied the recycle bin. I restarted my computer. There didn't seem to be any sign of any malware, so I shut it down, and went to bed, falling into a restless dream.
I haven't really slept since then. I keep seeing what I saw in my nightmares. I'm still scared that somehow they'll find me. I sleep with a gun now. Every noise at night wakes me up in terror. I'm writing this to all of you would be deep web delvers. This isn't going to stop most of you, but at the least I can warn you. Be careful. Try to stay to the safer sites. Don't just click random links. There's some cool stuff out there. But whatever you see is with you forever. I'm probably not ever going back there. Theres nothing on there worth what I've been through.
When it comes to Bitcoin (BTC) mining, the major questions on people’s minds are “how profitable is Bitcoin mining” and “how long would it take to mine one Bitcoin?” To answer these questions, we need to take an in-depth look at the current state of the Bitcoin mining industry — and how it has changed — over the last several years.
Bitcoin mining is, essentially, the process of participating in Bitcoin’s underlying security mechanism — known as proof-of-work — to help secure the Bitcoin blockchain. In return, participants receive compensation in bitcoins (BTC).
When you participate in Bitcoin mining, you are essentially searching for blocks by crunching complex cryptographic challenges using your mining hardware. Once a block is discovered, new transactions are recorded and verified within the block and the block discoverer receives the block rewards — currently set at 12.5 BTC — as well as the transactions fees for the transactions included within the block.
Once the maximum supply of 21 million Bitcoins has been mined, no further Bitcoins will ever come into existence. This property makes Bitcoin deflationary, something which many argue will inevitably increase the value of each Bitcoin unit as it becomes more scarce due to increased global adoption.
The limited supply of Bitcoin is also one of the reasons why Bitcoin mining has become so popular. In previous years, Bitcoin mining proved to be a lucrative investment option — netting miners with several fold returns on their investment with relatively little effort.
bitcoin mining hardware
The mining hardware you choose will mostly depend on your circumstances — in terms of budget, location and electricity costs. Since the amount of hashing power you can dedicate to the mining process is directly correlated with how much Bitcoin you will mine per day, it is wise to ensure your hardware is still competitive in 2019.
Bitcoin uses SHA256 as its mining algorithm. Because of this, only hardware compatible with this algorithm can be used to mine Bitcoin. Although it is technically possible to mine Bitcoin on your current computer hardware — using your CPU or GPU — this will almost certainly not generate a positive return on your investment and you may end up damaging your device.
The most cost-effective way to mine Bitcoin in 2019 is using application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) mining hardware. These are specially-designed machines that offer much higher performance per watt than typical computers and have been an absolutely essential purchase for anybody looking to get into Bitcoin mining since the first Avalon ASICs were shipped in 2013.
When it comes to selecting Bitcoin mining hardware, there are several main parameters to consider — though the importance of each of these may vary based on personal circumstances and budget.
Performance per Watt
When it comes to Bitcoin mining, performance per watt is a measure of how many gigahashes per watt a machine is capable of and is, hence, a simple measure of its efficiency. Since electricity costs are likely to be one of the largest expenses when mining Bitcoin, it is usually a good idea to ensure that you are getting good performance per watt out of your hardware.
Ideally, your mining hardware would be highly efficient, allowing it to mine Bitcoin with lower energy requirements — though this will need to be balanced with acquisition costs, as often the most efficient hardware is also the most expensive. This means it may take longer to see a return on investment.
In countries with cheap electricity, performance per watt is often less of a concern than acquisition costs and price-performance ratio. In most countries, operating outdated mining hardware is typically cost prohibitive, as energy costs outweigh the income generated by the mining equipment.
However, this may not be the case for those operating in countries with extremely cheap electricity — such as Kuwait and Venezuela — as even older equipment can still be profitable. Similarly, miners with a free energy surplus, such as from wind or solar electric generators, can benefit from the minimal gains offered by still running outdated hardware.
The lifetime of mining hardware also plays a critical role in determining how profitable your mining venture will be. It’s always a good idea to do whatever possible to ensure it runs as smoothly as possible.
Since mining equipment tends to run at a full (or almost full) load for extended periods, they also tend to break down and fail more frequently than most electronics — which can seriously damage your profitability. Equipment failure is even more common when purchasing second-hand equipment. Since warranty claims are often challenging, it can often take a long time to receive a warranty replacement.
In many cases, one of the major criteria used to select mining hardware is the price-performance ratio — a measure of how much performance a machine outputs per unit price. In the case of cryptocurrency mining hardware, this is commonly expressed as gigahashes per dollar or GH/$.
Under ideal circumstances, the mining hardware would have a high price-performance ratio, ensuring you get a lot of bang for your buck. However, this must also be considered in combination with the acquisition costs and the expected lifetime of the machine — since the absolute most powerful machines are not always the cheapest or the most energy efficient.
Acquisition costs are almost always the biggest barrier to entry for most Bitcoin miners since most top-end mining hardware costs several thousand dollars. This problem is further compounded by the fact that many hardware manufacturers offer discounts for bulk purchases, allowing those with deeper pockets to achieve a better price-performance ratio.
Acquisition costs include all the costs involved in purchasing any mining equipment, including hardware costs, shipping costs, import duties, and any further costs. For example, many ASIC miners do not include a power supply — which can be another considerable expense, since the 1,000W+ power supplies usually required tend to cost several hundred dollars alone.
Ensuring your equipment runs smoothly can also add in additional costs, such as cooling and maintenance expenses. In addition, some miners may want to invest in uninterruptible power supplies to ensure their hardware keeps running — even if the power fails temporarily.
Current Generation Hardware
One of the most recent additions to the Bitcoin mining hardware market is the Ebang Ebit E11++, which was released in October 2018. Using a 10nm fabrication process for its processors, the Ebit E11++ is able to achieve one of the highest hash rates on the market at 44TH/s.
In terms of efficiency, the Ebang Ebit E11++ is arguably the best on the market, offering 44TH/s of hash rate while drawing just 1,980W of power, offering 22.2GH/W performance. However, as of writing, the Ebang Ebit E11++ is out of stock until March 31, 2019 — while its price of $2,024 (excluding shipping) may make it prohibitively expensive for those first getting involved with Bitcoin mining.
Another popular choice is the ASICminer 8 Nano, a machine released in October 2018 that offers 44TH/s for $3,900 excluding shipping. The ASICminer 8 Nano draws 2,100W of power, giving it an efficiency of almost 21GH/W — slightly lower than the Ebit E11++ while costing almost double the price. However, unlike the E11++, the 8 Nano is actually in stock and available to purchase.
ASICminer also offers the 8 Nano Pro, a machine launched in mid-2018 that offers 80 TH/s of hash rate for $9,500 (excluding shipping). However, unlike the Ebit E11++ and 8 Nano, the minimum order quantity for the 8 Nano Pro is curiously set at five, meaning you will need to lay out a minimum of $47,500 in order to actually get your hands on one (or five).
While the 8 Nano Pro doesn’t offer the same performance per watt as the Ebit E11+ or AICMiner 8 Nano, it is one of the quieter miners on this list, making it more suitable for a home or office environment. That being said, the ASICminer 8 Nano Pro is easily the most expensive miner per TH on this list — costing a whopping $118.75/TH, compared to the $46/TH offered by the E11++ and $88.64 offered by the 8 Nano.
The latest hardware on this list is the Innosilicon T3 43T, which is currently available for pre-order at $2,279, and estimated to ship in March 2019. Offering 43TH/s of performance at 2,100W, the T3 43T comes in at an efficiency of 20.4GH/W, which is around 10 percent less energy efficient than the Ebit E11++.
The T3 43T also has a minimum order quantity of three units, making the minimum acquisition cost $6837 + shipping for preorders. All in all, the T3 43T is more costly and less efficient than the E11++ but may arrive slightly earlier since Ebang will not ship the E11++ units until at least end March 29, 2019.
Finally, this list would not be complete without including Bitmain’s latest offering, the Antminer S15-28TH/s, which — as its name suggests — offers 28TH/s of hash power while drawing just under 1600W at the wall. The Antminer S15 is one of the only SHA256 miners to use 7nm processors, making it somewhat smaller than some of the other devices on this list.
Like most pieces of top-end Bitcoin mining hardware, the Antminer S15 27TH/s model is currently sold out, with current orders not shipping until mid-February 2019. However, the S15 is offered at a significantly lower price than many of its competitors at just $1020 (excluding shipping), with no minimum quantity restriction. At these rates, the Antminer comes in at just $37.78/TH — though its energy efficiency is a much less impressive 17.5GH/W.
Mining Hardware Mining Hardware Comparison
Performance (GH/W) Price Performance Ratio ($/TH)
Ebang Ebit E11++ 22.2GH/W $46/TH
ASICminer 8 Nano 21GH/W $88.64/TH
ASICminer 8 Nano Pro 19GH/W $118.75/TH
Innosilicon T3 43T 20.4GH/W $53/TH
Antminer S15-28TH/s 17.5GH/W $37.78/TH
How To Select a Good Mining Pool
Mining pools are platforms that allow miners to pool their resources together to achieve a higher collective hash rate — which, in turn, allows the collective to mine more blocks than they would be able to achieve alone.
Typically, these mining pools will distribute block rewards to contributing miners based on the proportion of the hash rate they supply. If a pool contributing a total of 20 TH/s of hash rate successfully mines the next block, a user responsible for 10 percent of this hash rate will receive 10 percent of the 12.5 BTC reward.
Pools essentially allow smaller miners to compete with large private mining organizations by ensuring that the collective hash rate is high enough to successfully mine blocks on regular basis. Without operating through a mining pool, many miners would be unlikely to discover any blocks at all — due to only contributing a tiny fraction of the overall Bitcoin hash rate.
While it is quite possible to be successful mining without a pool, this typically requires an extremely large mining operation and is usually not recommended — unless you have enough hash rate to mine blocks on a regular basis.
Although it is technically possible to discover blocks mining solo and keep the entire 12.5 BTC reward for yourself, the odds of this actually occurring are practically zero — making pool collaboration practically the only way to compete in 2019 and beyond.
Selecting the best pool for you can be a challenging job since the vast majority of pools are quite similar and offer similar features and comparable fees. Because of this, we have broken down the qualities you should be looking for in a new pool into four categories; reputation, hash rate, pool fees, and usability/features:
The reputation of a pool is one of the most important factors in selecting the pool that is best for you. Well-reputed pools will tend to be much larger than newer or less well-established pools since few pools with a poor reputation can stand the test of time.
Well-reputed pools also tend to be more transparent about their operation, many of which provide tools to ensure that each user is getting the correct reward based on the hash rate contributed. By using only pools with a great reputation, you also ensure your hash rate is not being used for nefarious purposes — such as powering a 51 percent attack.
When comparing a list of pools that appear suitable for you, it is a wise move to read their user reviews before making your choice — ensuring you don’t end up mining at a pool that steals your hard-fought earnings.
When it comes to mining Bitcoin, the probability of discovering the next block is directly related to the amount of hashing power you contribute to the network. Because of this, one of the major features you should be considering when selecting your pool is its total hash rate — which is often closely related to the proportion of new blocks mined by the pool
Since the total hash rate of a pool is directly related to how quickly it discovers new blocks, this means the largest pools tend to discover a relative majority of blocks — leading to more regular rewards. However, the very largest pools also tend the have higher fees but often make up for this with sheer success and additional features.
Sometimes, some of the largest pools have a minimum hash rate requirement ù leaving some of the smaller miners left out of the loop. Although smaller pools typically have more relaxed requirements with reduced performance thresholds, these pools may be only slightly more profitable than mining solo.
When choosing a suitable pool, typically one of the major considerations is its fees. Typically, most pools will charge a small fee that is deducted from your earnings and is usually around 1-2 percent — but sometimes slightly lower or higher.
There are also pools that offer 0 percent fees. However, these are often much smaller than the major pools and tend to make their money in a different way — such as through monthly subscriptions or donations.
Ideally, you will choose the pool that offers the best balance of fees to other features. Usually, the pool with the absolute lowest fees is not the best choice. Additionally, pools with the lowest fees often have the highest withdrawal minimums — making pool hopping uneconomical for most.
Usability and Features
When first starting out with Bitcoin mining, learning how to set up a pool and navigating through the settings can be a challenge. Because of this, several pools target their services to newer users by offering a simple to navigate user interface and providing detailed learning resources and prompt customer support.
However, for more experienced miners, simple pools don’t tend to offer a variety of features needed to maximize profitability. For example, although many mining pools focus their entire hash rate towards mining a single cryptocurrency, some are large enough to offer additional options — allowing users to mine other SHA256 coins such as Bitcoin Cash (BCH) or Fantom if they choose.
These pools are technically more challenging to use and mostly designed for those familiar with mining, happy to hop from coin to coin mining whichever is most profitable at the time. There are even some exchanges that automatically direct their combined hash rate at the most profitable cryptocurrency — taking the guesswork out of the equation.
bitcoin mining pool
Best Mining Pools for 2019
The Bitcoin mining pool industry has a large number of players, but the vast majority of the Bitcoin hash rate is concentrated within just a few pools. Currently, there are dozens of suitable pools to choose from — but we have selected just a few of the best to help get you started on your journey.
Slushpool was the first Bitcoin mining pool released, being launched way back in 2010 under the name “Bitcoin Pooled Mining Server.” Since then, Slushpool has grown into one of the most popular pools around — currently accounting for just under 10 percent of the total Bitcoin hash rate.
Although Slushpool isn’t one of the very largest pools, it does offer a newbie-friendly interface alongside more advanced features for those that need them. The pool has moderately high fees of 2 percent but offers servers in several countries — including the U.S., Europe, China, and Japan — giving it a good balance of fees to features. BTC.com
is another potential candidate for your pool and currently stands as the largest public Bitcoin mining pool. It is responsible for mining around 17 percent of new blocks. Being the largest public mining pool provides users with a sense of security, ensuring blocks are mined regularly and a stable income is made.
Image courtesy of Blockchain.info
is owned by Bitmain, a company that manufacturers mining hardware, and charges a 1.5 percent fees — placing it squarely in the middle-tier in terms of fees. Unlike other platforms, BTC.com
uses its own payment structure known as FPPS (Full Pay Per Share), which means miners also receive a share of the transaction fees included within mined blocks — making it slightly more profitable than standard payment per share (PPS) pools.
Another great option is Antpool, a mining pool that supports mining services for 10 different cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin, Litecoin (LTC) and Ethereum (ETH). AntPool frequently trades places with BTC.com
as the largest Bitcoin mining pool. However, as of this writing, it occupies the title of the third-largest public mining pool.
What sets Antpool apart from other pools is the ability to choose your own fee system — including PPS, PPS+, and PPLNS. If you choose PPLNS, using Antpool is free but you will not receive any transaction fees from any blocks mined. Antpool also offers regular payouts and has a low minimum payout of just 0.001 BTC, making it suitable for smaller miners.
Last on the list of the best Bitcoin mining pools in 2019 is the Bitcoin.com
mining pool. Although this is one of the smaller pools available, the Bitcoin.com
pool has some redeeming features that make it worth a look. It offers mining contracts, allowing you to test out Bitcoin mining before investing in mining equipment of your own. According to Bitcoin.com, they are the highest paying Pay Per Share (PPS) pool in the world, offering up to 98 percent block rewards as well as automatic switching between BTC and BCH mining to optimize profitability.
While your mining hardware is most important when it comes to how much BTC you can earn when mining, your electricity costs are usually the largest additional expense. With electricity costs often varying dramatically between countries, ensuring you are on the best cost-per-KWh plan available will help to keep costs down when mining.
Most commonly, large mining operations will be set up in countries where electricity costs are the lowest — such as Iceland, India, and Ukraine. Since China has one of the lowest energy costs in the world, it was previously the epicenter of Bitcoin mining. However, since the government began cracking down on cryptocurrencies, it has largely fallen out of favor with miners.
Technically, Venezuela is one of the cheapest countries in the world in terms of electricity, with the government heavily subsidizing these energy costs — while Bitcoin offers an escape from the hyperinflation suffered by the Venezuelan bolivar. Despite this, importing mining hardware into the country is a costly endeavor, making it impractical for many people.
Finding ways to lower your electricity costs is one of the best ways to improve your mining profitability. This can include investing in renewable energy sources such as solar, geothermal, or wind — which can yield increased profitability over the long term.
if you are looking to buy bitcoin mining equipment here is some links:
Model Antminer S17 Pro (56Th) from Bitmain mining SHA-256 algorithm with a maximum hashrate of 56Th/s for a power consumption of 2385W. https://miningwholesale.eu/product/bitmain-antminer-s17-pro-56th-copy/?wpam_id=17
Model Antminer S9K from Bitmain mining SHA-256 algorithm with a maximum hashrate of 14Th/s for a power consumption of 1323W. https://miningwholesale.eu/product/bitmain-antminer-s9k-14-th-s/?wpam_id=17
Model T2T 30Tfrom Innosilicon mining SHA-256 algorithm with a maximum hashrate of 30Th/s for a power consumption of 2200W. https://miningwholesale.eu/product/innosilicon-t2t-30t/?wpam_id=17
mining wholesale website: https://miningwholesale.eu/?wpam_id=17
grexx submitted by
So I think we need to start thinking about blockchain systems as clusters of networks and not one main blockchain. You may have one core token/currency that the other chains recognize and can process as currency (through smartbridge transactions) but then have that pegged to the sidechains for the purpose of accounting in and out of the sidechain that processes the smart contracts. This might allow you to have a scalable network of sidechains running ARKVM and smart contracts that users could select between in congested periods while still using the main ARK token as currency in and out of the sidechain. If that makes sense. I missed a lot of the argument above and just saw some discussion on VM and sidechains so wanted to see what all the fuss was about but I don't have time to fully get caught up. So correct me if I missed the core of the concern/argument Ultimately for scaling efforts to work, people are going to have to start thinking outside of the box and doing everything on one chain isn't the answer. the one thing you want to avoid is having too much extra data being processed on the main chain you want to keep it lean and focused on payments as effectively as possible It's extremely cumbersome to spin off an entire blockchain just to run one dapp/smart contract I'll be better off joining an already popular chain with the vm enabled So this is something I think is misleading. One major facet of ARK is that we are going to seriously lower the barrier to entry for deploying blockchains. On top of that, there would be several economic models for the person running the chain to secure delegates. They could potentially offer profit sharing, i.e. if the contract charges a fee to run, a portion of the cost of using the dapp/smart contract goes to the delegate pool. They could fund it themselves as you mentioned through some form of contract, or they could create a model we haven't even thought of yet, like in game perks, company voting rights for delegates, etc. Remember that a sidechain isn't necessarily just a smart contract, it could be a companies entire product rolled into a dapp using a blockchain that they don't want bloated or effected by other data they could close off that blockchain to deploying or processing smart contracts outside of their dapp and simply have it serve the purpose of their product. That would be just one use case of deploying an ARK compatible chain You could accept ARK into your sidechain through a pegged mechanism as payment for utilizing your smart contract/dapp and then have the contract that accepts that ARK peg distribute tokens to the delegates that could then be withdrawn to the main ARK chain through the smartbridge from the associated main chain account which does the financial accounting for the sidechain grexx
No matter what you think about ethereum's scaling solutions, it has 100% not been proven to actually work up to this point. If I was a product owner, I would not want to rely on the ethereum developers or the ethereum blockchain at this point for my entire business model Look at how many businesses right now are effected when something like CryptoKitties kills the Eth blockchain how would you feel if you are a company with a product and some asshat mobile app for trading digital cats shuts down your business for 4 days and you lose a weeks salary for your employees due to the losses it's an unsustainable business model We are going to make it to where anyone can deploy a blockchain as easily as they would deploy a VPS or a website. In some industries, like gaming, it might become a badge of honor or an esteemed position to be a delegate for those chains. It could even be incorporated into the game itself. For larger corporate environments, they may not care about having it be as decentralized as you and may have a series of corporate partners collaborate on running a network they use among several companies for a product line who knows what people will come up with we are building the tools to create new business models, building them off the ARK brand and with built in compatibility to create inter-chain operations in the future as we learn where those new opportunities lie the reason everyone uses ERC20 and runs on Eth right now is because they have no other option without putting in serious man hours to launch their own eth chain We have talked to countless teams building on Ethereum right now who wish there was another option. Everyone in this sector has a different view of how this all plays out. Ethereum has their vision and anyone who wants to support them is probably making a great decision. They have some of the smartest minds working on the issues with their network but it doesn't mean it's the right answer in every situation. moonman
This doesn't address how to run trustless swaps when the main chain doesn't have a VM, which is one of the main Ark products people are looking forward to. You're saying that the sidechain needs to be funded by the runner, but then that again kills the point because then it's centralized and requires some dude to back his own tokens for the swaps, which is nonsense. grexx
I didn't say it needs to be. I said there are several options of how to secure delegates for a sidechain. moonman
I'm not talking about securing them. I'm talking about a specific product that has been hailed as the holy grail for ARK - trustless currency swaps How do you propose it works with a sidechain when sidechain tokens have no value compared to ARK? grexx
If the sidechain requires money to swap into the sidechain in order to secure an action, then the money is supplied by the people using the service. goldenpepe
There is lots of confusion and mixed messaging as to what Ark actually is Is Ark a way to connect blockchains? Or is Ark a platform? goldenpepe
The people that believed the former were confused as to why the VM isn't going to be on the main chain Since that would allow trustless swaps But apparently it isn't moonman
I'm asking about trustless swaps. There are 3 parties in this equation - the main chain ARK that is swapped in, the side chain token, and the target currency that is outside Ark's chains. If ArkVM was on the mainchain then it is simple to require collateral on the ArkVM side and then release it after. With a side chain, this isn't possible because the tokens used to faciliate the transaction between for ex BTC and ARK have no value @grexx grexx
I don't think there is confusion or mixed messages. I think ARK has the potential to fill roles we haven't even thought up yet. I think the confusion is in what YOU personally want ARK to be and what you see as the killer application, and maybe a difference in priorities. goldenpepe
No, based on everything I've seen it's the former grexx
But always remember I am only here to speak for myself and not the team in any sort of proper spokesman role. moonman
It's not "us personally" - we run the largest and most active Ark community outside of this slack. goldenpepe
If it's the latter then there needs to be better communication moonman
We have a point of reference to know what people are expecting or investing for / want goldenpepe
I keep seeing people pushing the "smartbridge" as a way to connect chains grexx
Does there? Why? Because you say so? goldenpepe
I see encoded listeners being pushed moonman
Because everybody says so. goldenpepe
People keep talking about how Ark will connect every chain using encoded listeners and "embedding the code snippet" grexx
The intention was to fulfill both roles. To create push button blockchains with the ability to share data between each of those chains. goldenpepe
But how do you fulfill the former without a VM on the main chain?
You can't do trustless swaps without it moonman
Our question is directly regarding HOW this will technically be possible without VM on the main chain without trusting centralized nodes.
ArkVM was pitched as the solution to centralized nodes.
Without it in the equation it's just an open source ShapeShift goldenpepe
I said this earlier, but there needs to be a real whitepaper
A fully technical explanation of all the technology and how everything is supposed to work grexx
So let me ask you this just as a philosophy/feasibility question. Would you rather see a closed smart contract system on the main chain that only allowed contracts for trustless swaps between chains but not necessarily open deployment of smart contracts, i.e. you wouldn't be able to deploy cryptokitties to the main chain to run your business but we would be able to deploy a contract to allow trustless swaps between the sidechain that runs it, while still balancing out the need to keep the majority of application traffic off of the main chain to avoid bloat/congestion? moonman
If you're asking if we/people want main chain VM exclusive use for trustless swaps, the answer is absolutely YES
If main chain was limited to swaps it would address all the concerns we and fellow Ark holders we've talked to have goldenpepe
My concerns are slightly different and related to the forked chains themselves
the_stalker You tell them @moonman goldenpepe
I don't see how segregating the VM to another chain will solve bloat grexx
I see that the argument focuses down to trustless swaps being the key component that is desired, but the ARK teams major issue with allowing deployment of contracts in the way it works currently on Ethereum is with the bloat/congestion issue goldenpepe
devs that want to deploy a smart contract will just join a chain that has the VM enabled already
That will lead to the problem ethereum is having now moonman
If swaps were the exclusive use of VM on the main chain it would avoid bloat. spghtzzz
Sidechains will have ARK valuation? goldenpepe
That's the thing though
I don't see how segregating the VM into its own chain will solve bloat
Everyone will just congregate onto a single popular VM-enabled chain goldenpepe
It'll be an ethereum clone grexx
If application are functioning on individual connected sidechains then the majority of in-application processing could be accomplished on the sidechain with pegged trustless swaps back to the main chain and the only accounting on the main chain is the accounting moonman
I think I understand what the team is getting at with deploying sidechain VMs, I am simply worried that the biggest pitch that people have repeated back to us is not possible without the main chain VM being able to be used for swaps.
@goldenpepe They won't because there will be no valuation incentive. spghtzzz
So trustless swaps will be available then moonman
So the private chains will stay "private"
@spghtzzz No, he just asked us as a "what if", but hopefully he asked for a good reason :slightly_smiling_face: grexx
I am not allowed to divulge key internal information, but I do enjoy talking these things through and getting feedback/opinions (edited) spghtzzz
If sidechains can have proper valuation in ARK, just start a decentralized-oriented chain and make trustless swaps available moonman
That runs the risk of dethroning ARK, which would be the other issue. goldenpepe
I mean, answering technical details of how this should all work on a high level shouldn't be "key internal info"
That's our biggest worry: the promises aren't technically possible moonman
You're not selling to just investors here, developers like us want to know how this is going to be done because it's why we're here in the first place creating things on ARK and running delegates - we want to see it succeed and we're currently between a rock and a hard place trying to get an explanation for "HOW" this is going to happen.
If you're telling us that the intended use for ark is different from what nearly everybody we asked concluded from the marketing, it feels like we bought into a bait and switch or there was a severe breakdown in communication. (edited) spghtzzz
Dethroning won't be an issue though, if everything is measured out in ARK, that's incentive to have/use ARK. (edited) moonman
It can't be measured out in ARK if the main chain has no VM, because the sidechain token HAS to have a valuation in order to do the swaps - in which case there's no point in swapping to ARK in the end anyway @spghtzzz spghtzzz
I'm confused though, isn't that what smartbridge is for? moonman
smartbridge is a text field jarunik
Basically you need native bridging before it can work. grexx
I hear you and I am taking notes on some of the issues. From the very beginning, at least as far as I am concerned, ARK has been about community development and building this out as a team. Unfortunately in this industry, people do like to cannibalize and sometimes it's hard to know how open to be. I think we are seeing a little bit of a conflict between those two philosophies. I think it would only be beneficial to get input and to do some sort of technical sessions with some of the prominent devs in the community for feedback and solidifying some of these topics. All we can do is end up strengthening the final vision. That being said, everyone obviously on the development side keeps very busy and we have multiple time zones, so I am not sure how complicated it would be to setup.
I wish we had an upcoming event everyone could meet up at and have a 3 day whiteboard session lol goldenpepe
If you're telling us that the intended use for ark is different from what nearly everybody we asked concluded from the marketing This. Ark was marketed to me as a middleman to let other chains communicate 1 reply Today at 7:13 AM View thread goldenpepe
Ark being a platform of forked chains is something different moonman
It can be both with your "philosophical" suggestion of only allowing main chain VM for swaps. goldenpepe
Maybe this is a reason to start marketing/doing PR :wink:
I always thought it would be both. Was I wrong? goldenpepe
It can be both if the VM was on the main chain grexx
I don't think ARK is an eitheor of the above proposed uses, I think the intention is a both. arigard
Isn't aces connecting the block chains? goldenpepe
Mostly on our discord with other devs
ACES is shapeshift moonman
ACES is centralized @arigard goldenpepe
It's not decentralized or trustless grexx
Aces requires trusted intermediaries
We were under the impression - and I think ryano was as well - that ArkVM would allow things like ACES to function trustlessly using a main chain VM implementation goldenpepe
Yea, I remember when ACES was first released and we talked to ryano about it moonman
So it could become more than just "open source shapeshift" (edited) goldenpepe
Even he said smart contracts could be used to do ACES in a trustless manner
But that's not possible without the VM on the main chain grexx
No I mean I get what you are saying. Look if we launch a fully integrated open source ARK blockchain with full ARKVM functionality and anyone in the world can clone it and publish an Ethereum competitor on the spot, we always ran the risk of someone forking/cloning ARK and stealing our thunder, but that is a risk we are willing to take.
We won't intentionally hamstring ourselves
who said that? grexx
ARKVM was on the initial roadmap from Day 1 grexx
Technically it was on the roadmap at Crypti mike
The main chain is only to provide communications among bridged chains, and send payments in Ark among addresses, just as TCP/IP is only used to send data among IP addresses. Applications seeking trustless operation can run their own bridged chains with multiple delegates forked from Ark and configured to their own custom configurations, or they can even use a different consensus system altogether. Enterprise applications can run permissioned ledgers using an Ark fork since it is very similar to DPoS, except they control who can be delegates, like EduCTX as an example. ArkVM will be available for those who want to run Solidity contracts, either as their own forked and bridged chain, like if they have complex contracts and/or high volume, or can run their contracts on a public ArkVM chain bridged to Ark. ACES is also available as a trusted listener and relay node option to other chains. There are plenty of options for difference use cases and preferences. goldenpepe
But Mike, wouldn't being forced to fork off your own chain every time you wanted to create your own dapp/smart contract be extremely cumbersome? jarunik
It is already really easy to clone goldenpepe
How is it easy? You need to set up your own servers, find people to be your delegates, acquire a stash of ark
If you end up being your own delegate then there goes decentralization moonman
I understand and agree with the use case OUTSIDE of trust less swaps. But in the context of trustless swaps, which has been Ark's biggest selling point everywhere we asked, it would only be possible if the main chain had VM or a sidechain token had a valuation, in which case there would be no reason to swap back to ark. Were trustless swaps not a big part of the internal goal of what ArkVM aims to accomplish? How would it work with just side chains without stealing Ark's thunder? @mike ryano
I've talked about trust and the design of ACES in many posts. It often gets argued as not being trustless, but I do state that the ACES design is intentionally "trust agnostic" because there are many different views on the right way to build blockchain services. Not all parties believe trustless is even a thing. For example, even in smart contracts that are "trustless" you must trust the code, and very few people will critique the code, so you end up with a single point of trust failure. My personal favorite approach is M of N multisig, and this can reduce trust to a statistically insignificant amount (though by definition, as perhaps with all things, not 100% trustless). spghtzzz
if native function is built in v2, we can see trustless swaps ryano
as far as ACES being shapeshift, this is true to an extent. But shapeshift is like one single provider. A 1 of 1 signature service. With a marketplace we can build a system that has ways to manage trust using well studied trust based marketplace. And despite its name, the trust factor can be minimized towards zero with multisig goldenpepe
Who knows what protocol changes v2 will bring moonman
@ryano There's no such thing as multisig swaps though - that's sort of what it would be if main chain got VM - you could have 51 delegates to "decentralize" the contract and ensure it stays trustless. The current ACES implementation is entirely centralized around the specific node running it. moonman
A marketplace isn't decentralized, it just means you have more trust options. It's not "trust agnostic". You're only trusting one node, but you get to pick the node. ryano
Thats not true if it a multisig service goldenpepe
Another thing: wouldn't the forked chains require a stash of Ark? moonman
The problem with that is you're still trusting the few running them - they're not backed by ARK voters. goldenpepe
From what I remember Mike said, the forked chain's delegates will also be running Ark nodes which is how the forked chains' clients can communicate to Ark moonman
If you could lock ACES down to be ran just
under the delegate nodes ran under ARK itself, it could work. goldenpepe
But in order for that to happen, the delegates would need a stash of Ark in order to send Ark txs, no? grexx
I think there has always been an intention to have a marketplace of service providers who could be rated and would allow a more "trusted" environment but I get the argument against that model. spghtzzz
yes, it's a trust of consensus moonman
If ArkVM is being ported, it could be avoided and would renew and bring new faith into Ark if the main chain could become the central trustless hub for swaps. For other dapps I understand the hesitation due to bloat, but due to how the marketing was perceived or communicated I'm afraid that everyone we've spoken to or conversed with about the topic is expecting that specific dapp to play a central role in Ark development/adoption - which is why we were all taken aback when we were told that the main chain wouldn't have VM. grexx
But this here is exactly what led to the discussion above. What you describe here would then basically be a smart contract. Moon Man If you could lock ACES down to be ran just
under the delegate nodes ran under ARK itself, it could work. Posted in #generalToday at 6:58 AM moonman
There's no way to lock it down trustlessly though without also having it interwined with ARK
He can't "Force" nodes to run ACES, that's the problem.
Then the issue is we don't know who we are trusting.
Then you get other issues like sybil attacks ryano
I'm trying to dig up an important article on this topic, but you should all get familiar with the advantages and disadvantages of smart contracts vs. M of N multisig moonman
That's why DPoS is good - it solves these issues. ryano
you'll find very material advantages to multisig that are not often discussed, ones that fit very nicely in well studied and proven marketplace-like ecosystems goldenpepe
Aren't atomic swaps basically that? ryano
Were building ACES trust-agnostic for this reason, because if people want to built "trustless" services, which can be argued to be trusted anyways, theres no reason not to provide the ecosystem to communicate their services
but there will be many other services just using multisig to reduce trust jarunik
Someone will sure launch a clone chain which offers VM services ryano
this is how its done in bitcoin and monero, and is more powerful than people let on moonman
And then it overtakes ark if it carries ark features but has a swaps-capable VM, which is our other concern. jarunik
You will better be running it then! ryano
If i have 5 service providers, and a service is set up as a 3 of 5 signature service, those 5 providers are all listening to the external chain, possibly subscribing to different listener sources, and then verifying back to ark, like an oracle, that the requested event occurred. This is a simple binary oracle response, and can be entered as signature. Sign = yes, no sign = no/unsure. moonman
You have to trust those 5 providers though. ryano
You would then need 3 bad actors for this to fail. moonman
And what happens when you have sock puppets
that's how sybil attacks work
You spam the network with sock puppets goldenpepe
Yea even Tor got sybil'd moonman
If you can't add your own sock puppets, then what's the point of having 5 sigs if one person chooses all 5? Then you're just trusting the creator goldenpepe
but tbh, monero is vulnerable to sybil too moonman
The reason ARK will help with this is you are tying the 51 sigs to existing delegates that were voted in by ARK users.
They're "trusted" but decentralized in a method that makes sense given the platform ryano
well, why not use those delegates as your signers then moonman
There's no way to force the delegates to run the service
That's the problem ryano
no forcing anywhere, but incentives goldenpepe
Not unless the ark team embeds aces into ArkCore B.Lawrence.Lowe
What about incentivizing the delegates to run the service somehow? moonman
It won't matter. It's too easy for them to just say "I'm not interested or don't want to" and then you get attacked by those who are running it. It just doesn't make any sense. moonman
A second layer solution doesn't work simply because you can't enforce delegates running the service. ryano
But why do you trust the delegates? moonman
I don't - voters do.
I trust the collective voter choice vs your choice of 5 signatories B.Lawrence.Lowe
Voter here. I tust my delegate. He;s always paid me on time. moonman
It's about who ARK voters trust.
Because ultimately that's what powers the platform - trust in ARK and ARK holders spghtzzz
why do you trust a delegate who won't even reduce your TX fees? goldenpepe
I don't get it ryano
even with smart contracts, since were dealing with external chains, you need to trust a source to confirm that something from the outside world happened spghtzzz
explanation provided yesterday in #delegates if that was toward me @goldenpepe moonman
Correct - but it is far less concerning when that source is the 51 delegates.
Rather, when the source is confirmed by the 51 delegates ryano
but now instead of 51 delegates its 51 listener hubs
or even more moonman
Yes, but again, sybil attacks... B.Lawrence.Lowe
Right, and just like a representational government, as a voter I trust my delegate. I thought this is how this worked, yes? moonman
If you select the hubs, it's centralized to YOU selecting them. If you don't, it's open to sybil attacks from sock puppets
If it's limited to the delegates, it makes sense in the context of the ARK ecosystem because you are trusting your currency to those 51 people in the first place
He takes my votes and makes decisions for the community in my best interest, as his constituent, right? moonman
The only way to enforce the consensus is to build it into the core so delegates have to run the platform and keep the swaps "dapp" secure and running.
anyway, I've explained my case. Hopefully what I said made sense. mike
The original plan, and still the plan, is to interconnect other blockchains, which can be existing chains or new ones forked from ark. We have added ArkVM as an option to be added to the deployable chains, and run a public ArkVM chain. Ryano has also come up with ACES, as another, streamlined method to exchange and interact with other chains, which is an example of Ark allowing different methods to be developed to accomplish objectives. A non-turing complete VM meant only to facilitate cross chain swaps is a viable option as well, and can run as a bridged chain. ryano
You could reduce the risk of sybil attacks by doing something similar to how ark does voting. A listener source would have to be tied to an ark address, so you would see their "stake". In this case attempting to run 51 listeners to do a sybil attack would require you to reduce your stake, and likely be less attractive to users moonman
@mike How does the bridged chain function as a method for these swaps though? What do you envision as the technical flow for this?
@ryano You could do that, but then you're doing almost exactly what I mentioned before - making your own ARK clone but with swaps. (edited)
What would be the requirements for running the nodes? How would you force consensus without running its own blockchain? goldenpepe
@mike I recall you saying deployed chains' delegates will also be running Ark nodes which is how these chains will be able to communicate with Ark. But wouldn't that require these forked-chain delegates to maintain a stash of Ark? Wouldn't the chain become completely isolated once their delegate nodes run out of Ark? moonman
If it's not an ARK clone and just listeners - that means no PoW, no DPoS, what are you going to do in your listener code to enforce consensus
The only thing you can do is have more oracles checking the top 51 delegates and matching it with signatures provided by listeners - but then THOSE oracles get sybil attacked! mergatroid
You know on the roadmap where it says all of the goals, and tech documentation is at 25%
@mike "The original plan, and still the plan, is to interconnect other blockchains, which can be existing chains or new ones forked from ark." This answered my main question. As long as by "existing chains" you clearly mean, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Dash, Stratis, Waves, etc.. Not sure how it will all work because I don't code, but if you're confident in getting it done, that works for me. goldenpepe
@mergatroid All the questions we're asking could have been answered with a technical whitepaper, but it doesn't exist and the existing whitepaper is outdated. mike
they would run ark clients, which interact with the Ark chain, the various ark-cli clients that are available, or they can run full nodes with their own copies of the ark blockchain, it's up to the developer of a particular bridged chain how he wants to configure it. ryano
time to update that white paper :stuck_out_tongue: goldenpepe
But the pushbutton deployed chains will all need a stash of ark, no? spghtzzz
it'd be nice for interoperability purposes mike
They will need Ark to write data to the main ark chain using the vendor field. they will not need ark to run listeners and read the vendor field from transactions addressed to that chain. cannabanana
Dudes, all I can say is that this blockchain is less than a full year old. We've been already been looking for a technical writer for a whitepaper 2.0 and techincal whitepaper. mike
if they want to use Ark as a reserve currency to back exchanges between other chains they would need that as well. mike
As canna says, we are hiring for a technical writer to update and add to the documentation, and hiring in general is ramping up now that the SCic is in place. goldenpepe
@mike Do you envision in the future there will be an ark-fork with the VM enabled that will essentially be an ethereum clone where all the devs gather to play with smart contracts/dapps? mike
Do you have any worries that any such chain may overtake ARK itself? @mike goldenpepe
I'm more concerned over that chain becoming bloated which defeats the purpose of moving the VM to its own chain in the first place mike
no, it is for a specific type of use, smart contracts to provide ETH type functionality. moonman
Grexx mentioned a separate chain for each major dapp.
That would reduce/remove bloat goldenpepe
It'll get very confusing if you have a bunch of large open VM-enabled chains.
"Have you seen ArkieKitties?" "Where? On ArkFork1? Fork2?Fork3?" goldenpepe
It'll lead to fragmentation spghtzzz
ecosystem, fragmentation is good
in some senses.. goldenpepe
No it isn't lol moonman
It's good for the network, not for user interaction. goldenpepe
depends how its designed i think
can be done well goldenpepe
@ryano I also brought this up moonman
Yeah I think it's a minor issue as well, it can probably have a directory or its own DNS-like service in the wallet goldenpepe
So if I want to create a super cool new dapp, I'll need to fork off my own chain, find people to be my delegates, then give them a bunch of ark ryano
In ethereum you need to know the contract name to interact with it, so why not required to know the ark chain id? goldenpepe
It's too cumbersome mike
separate chains is the preferred method, and for a lot of things requiring complex code, Solidity contracts aren't the best way to go. But for those wanting to port Solidity code to Ark, either on a public chain or their own chain, ArkVM will provide that option. goldenpepe
Yea I was thinking that
Small contracts can exist on a shared chain while large dapps like kitties or an ICO can exist in its own chain
Large projects will have the resources to fork, find delegates, and fund them
But that will still create fragmentation if there exists multiple large public VM chains mike
I see ArkVM as a way to onboard projects and developers from Eth over to Ark, but then they may optimize for more efficient operation by writing code from scratch specific to their needs instead of running on solidity. As an example, non-turing complete application specific code is more reliable in that it has a finite set of states where as Turing complete code has an infinte set of state, not all of which can be known.
if the multiple large public chains are bridged, contracts running on them can still communicate with other contracts running on the other large public VMs. goldenpepe
Bridging them won't help if the dapp you want to access is on ChainA and ChainA takes hours to process a tx because of bloat mike
It's analagous to code running on Amazon servers can communicate with code running on OVH servers via TCP/IP, like delegates now communicate with each other while running on different data centers. grexx
just for reference, the intention is to make discovery extremely easy and for the average user, they will have no idea what chain they are on or how it works.
they will just buy kitties and be happy goldenpepe
@grexx It would be great if the wallet could do that and it would solve fragmentation issues
"Chain-hopping" being completely transparent to the user grexx
that is a top priority goldenpepe
But how will we deal with a certain chain containing data you need being slow? grexx
same way the free market deals with anything
if your service sucks, improve your service or get beat by competition goldenpepe
The bloated chain will lose users? mike
If a public VM degrades in performance then there is a market for another public VM, and the existing one can upgrade its performance to remain competitive. grexx
sidechains can increase capacity through better hardware with the upgrades being made goldenpepe
But blockchains are sticky (to use an economic term), people will be less prone to switch if all their assets exist in that slow chain
Look at bitcoin grexx
but then again like I mentioned way earlier goldenpepe
Slow as fuck but people still use it because they're invested mike
gress is a faster typist than I am... grexx
connected clusters with pegged assets I think are a potential answer
within the sidechains
well if you look at the main ark chain, we have 8s blockchains to maximize use case as currency
but a sidechain depending on its needs wouldn't necessarily have to have 8s and could probably do a lot to increase tps and other factors
those are all things we will min/max on devnet though mike
If a given VM chain becomes bigger than Ark and wags the dog, that is part of the evolution. We don't want to try to force the ecosystem to use Ark but instead attract them to do so. We don't want to be like New York banning railroads from entering New York City to force traffic to use the Erie Canal. grexx
all of crypto is an experiment and we have no idea what models will ultimately come out of it, especially when we make it easy for anyone to launch their own fully capable smart contract enabled blockchain (eth clone)
so there is definitely some inherent risk as with investing in any emerging technology moonman
Pegged assets would address my concern regarding sidechain valuations and their use in swaps, but pegged assets have never worked in crypto except for Tether which is centralized and potentially a fraud. goldenpepe
Didn't someone mention forking ark and printing USD-backed coins? moonman
We did lol
I never said it was a good idea moonman
I was going to mention bitshares @bluffet
Bitshares isn't stable
Their pegs have fluctuated WILDLY in the past goldenpepe
Bitshares got delisted from bittrex and is in deep shit with the SEC though mike
Yes, TCP/IP was originally just to connect academic and research lab computers to share files, evolved to add email, then web, and now all kinds of applications. None of this added functionality was planned or conceived when TCP/IP was first invented. bluffet
I know, moonman. It is a liquidity issue. The market solves it. moonman
Tether never had this issue though (I don't have a good reason for why - bitshares is infinitely better designed yet economically worse than tether) grexx
in 3 years we may look back and think, holy shit, I never saw that coming. People are innovative and when given time, always end up exceeding expectations. I guess we are starry eyed dreamers in that we want to create something that empowers a new generation of innovation and accessibility in the space. bluffet
I liked your discussion today, guys. I learn from it. grexx
bitshares along with all of dan's projects have the problem of being centralized within a small group of connected supporters (edited) goldenpepe
Yea this was a good conversation
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